tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9421634.post7912619364449552329..comments2023-08-21T06:14:28.151-07:00Comments on burndive: hacking my mind: Super Tuesday for the Christianburndivehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05133129688998029494noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9421634.post-22348811128065256792008-02-12T14:06:00.000-08:002008-02-12T14:06:00.000-08:00Dear Charlie,I see the strength of your analogy: w...Dear Charlie,<BR/><BR/>I see the strength of your analogy: we are not citizens of this world, which is spiraling down to corruption and condemnation; we are on a journey to somewhere else, where our true desire and expectation lies. <BR/><BR/>Your analogy, however, fails to account for a few things that are true of the Christian:<BR/><BR/> * The Christian was intentionally left in the world for a purpose: Jesus prayed specifically and explicitly that we would not be taken out of the world, but would be kept from the evil one while in it (John 17:15). We are therefore given the role of being salt and light. <BR/><BR/> * The Christian is responsible to be a faithful steward of those earthly resources which have been entrusted to him by the Lord (Mat 25:14-30). Among these resources are money, aptitude, and position, which in the case of citizens of democracies such as the United States includes the right to vote.<BR/><BR/>It is important to note that there is an improper way to invest our vote, just as there is an improper way to invest our money: if we regard money as something that belongs to us, we will spend it on ourselves or according to our wisdom and not the kingdom of God; if we regard our money or our aptitude as belonging to ourselves, we will use it to our own advantage and ends (or not at all), and not for the kingdom of God. This does not mean for an instant that we ought to pretend like we have no money, or no natural abilities: that, too, would be equally irresponsible. <BR/><BR/>If we regard the position to which we have been appointed: the ultimate rulers of our nation (as voters), as something our own, we will use it to our own ends, or perhaps we will use it outside the guidelines that God has laid down when He delegated power to man for government. (Genesis 9 & Romans 13)<BR/><BR/>None of those is the proper way to use the good gifts that God has bestowed on us for our spiritual training, and the blessing of those around us. However, the availability of sinful options does not negate righteousness: just because it is carnal for a Christian to try to gain his own benefit through his "talents", or to use them in a wrong way intending to bring about good, does not mean that there is no way to invest them faithfully for the kingdom of God.<BR/><BR/>Your example shows you becoming "interested" in the affairs of the world. Why were you interested? Did you think that perhaps you might plant your hope in this town and settle there, in order to extract fool's gold from it? That would be carnal, and you are correct in condemning it, but that does not mean that there is no reason for a Christian to be among the people of the world. If we have the ability to bless others with righteous leaders by faithfully executing our role as voters, should we refuse to give that blessing, as though we were not in the world after all? <BR/><BR/> * You use the example of Bill Clinton as a ruler that God appointed according to his sovereign will as president. You state that since God had chosen him, it would be against God's will to vote against him, and that since it would be wrong to not vote the most righteous man into office, a Christian should simply not vote.<BR/><BR/>Romans 1:18-32 details the downward spiral of corruption: God progressively gives men over to the desires of their corrupt body, passions, and mind, because they continually refuse to acknowledge Him. Would you say, then, that what God does in judgment is what He would like to be doing, or that He would rather that men be preserved in righteousness, and the light of Christ to illuminate them so that they would turn from their wickedness and serve the living and true God? Which do you suppose to be the "will" of God that His people ought not to oppose? <BR/><BR/>When I pray for rulers, and all in authority, I pray that God would bless our nation with righteous rulers in His mercy. I vote the same way, and in fact, I am part of the answer to my own prayer, because as a voter I am one of those rulers, and I have a responsibility to bless: to do good with the authority that God has given to me. It is not my place to pronounce judgement on the people: that is God's prerogative, and only He ought to be doing it.<BR/><BR/> * During the Korean war, you reasoned that it was not your place to take a life that God had given, and so you opted for service in a medical capacity.<BR/><BR/>It is good to give life instead of taking it, and I am glad that you had the freedom to obey your conscience when called upon to perform military service. <BR/><BR/>Not all war is just according to what God has delegated to governments to do in protecting the lives and the rights of the people under their care. We do know that God delegated to government the responsibility to uphold the sanctity of the life and image of Himself that He gave, and that sometimes this involves taking life (Gen 9:5-6). In this way, God was setting his weapon down (Gen 9:13), and putting the responsibility for protection of man into the hands of human government, which He previously had not done. <BR/><BR/>Because of this delegation, governments are responsible to be a terror to evil, and to praise what is good (Romans 13:3-4), and are therefore responsible to God to preserve the people in righteousness so that God does not need to intervene in judgment. <BR/><BR/>According to your statement, your conscience would not allow you to take a life created and given in the image of God. There are, however, situations in which taking life is what God would have us to do, not because we are Christians, but because we are in the world and God has placed us in the service of the government (or in the case that He has given a place of governmental responsibility to an individual), and I would be uncomfortable making such a blanket statement as you have made.<BR/><BR/>I, too, have been troubled by some who have chosen to involve themselves in the political arena, either by means contrary to His Word, or for ends contrary to our calling. History is stained with the blood of those whom the kings of the earth have killed on behalf of religious corruption. This does not, however, negate our role of responsibility to be faithful stewards, salt, and light.<BR/><BR/>I believe Mark summarized my earlier comments rather well:<BR/><BR/><I>We are in the deplorable state we are in largely because Godly people abandoned the political arena. We aren't going to save, or even change, the world through politics, but it can be a means of hindering evil, thus buying time for the gospel to go further.<BR/><BR/>As to results, that's not our business. A steward is responsible for following his Lord's instructions, not for the end results.</I><BR/><BR/><BR/>In Christ,burndivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05133129688998029494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9421634.post-76458803379993555862008-02-12T11:23:00.000-08:002008-02-12T11:23:00.000-08:00From Charles:Hi, Tim, Thanks for your comments on ...From Charles:<BR/><BR/>Hi, Tim,<BR/><BR/> <BR/><BR/>Thanks for your comments on the political issues of the day. Having lived through 76 years, I've heard the<BR/><BR/>many "arguments" and now send a few thoughts that have matured in my heart/mind. It's good to share<BR/><BR/>these matters in the fear of the Lord. First, a hypothetical story of my own making:<BR/><BR/> <BR/><BR/>I live in the 1840s in Boston and have heard of the golden opportunities out west. Finally I make the decision<BR/><BR/>to head west. Hitching up my wagon, I hit the trail and move slowly toward the west. Along my journey in<BR/><BR/>Ohio, I come across a rally in the town square of a small town. Interested, I tie up my wagon and mingle in<BR/><BR/>the crowd. I listen to some political speeches and soon find myself joining in supporting a particular candidate. Finally, a local approaches me, questioning my presence at the rally. Who are you and where are you from? A bit embarrased, I explain I'm on a journey to the west and simply stopped at the rally out of interest. I became interested and then excited to the point that I couldn't help but join in. The local then sug-<BR/><BR/>gested that this rally had nothing to do with me and suggested that I simply move along on my journey. Embarrased, I agree and humbly move along on the trail. <BR/><BR/> <BR/><BR/>Tim, don't you think it's notable that the Lord never involved Himself with the politics of this world? His mission was to seek and to save the lost. <BR/><BR/> <BR/><BR/>Probably 35 years or so ago at work, a christian friend stopped by my desk at election time and asked my<BR/><BR/>intentions regarding the election. After explaining that I wasn't voting I asked him if he would not be voting for the most honorable and upright candidate running for office. Of course he agreed. I agreed that if voting,<BR/><BR/>I too would make such a choice. Then referenced the verse in Dan. 4:17 that "the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever He will, and setteth over it the basest of men." Therefore, I explained to my friend that in voting for the most honorable and upright candidate, I might be actually voting<BR/><BR/>against the candidate of God's choice. I suppose we have a vivid example of this in the election of Bill Clinton.<BR/><BR/>No doubt you or I wouldn't have voted for him, but in God's sovereignty, he was the man.<BR/><BR/> <BR/><BR/>As to military service, I was drafted into the U.S. Army during the Korean war in 1952. I went in as a conscientious objector, to the extent that I would not carry a gun. I do not know how I, as a christian, could<BR/><BR/>kill another soul to whom God had given life. Thankfully this category was an option for me and I went in and was trained as a medic, working in a hospital unit caring for North Korean prisoners. <BR/><BR/> <BR/><BR/>Certainly I believe I should be a cooperative and responsible citizen. First, however, my obedience must be to<BR/>God rather than man. I am not troubled by you or others who choose to vote and involved themselves in the<BR/><BR/>political arena. And, I'm thankful that we can share together regarding these matters. I look forward to hearing from you.<BR/><BR/> <BR/><BR/>In Him, Charlieburndivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05133129688998029494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9421634.post-40736840539184484412008-02-07T16:54:00.000-08:002008-02-07T16:54:00.000-08:00From Mark:Well said, Tim. I think you've captured...From Mark:<BR/><BR/>Well said, Tim. I think you've captured the proper balance. We are in the deplorable state we are in largely because Godly people abandoned the political arena. We aren't going to save, or even change, the world through politics, but it can be a means of hindering evil, thus buying time for the gospel to go further.<BR/> <BR/>As to results, that's not our business. A steward is responsible for following his Lord's instructions, not for the end results.<BR/> <BR/>Markburndivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05133129688998029494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9421634.post-70163426656950574482008-02-06T12:01:00.000-08:002008-02-06T12:01:00.000-08:00Received from Joe:My fellow Americans,I Samuel 8:7...Received from Joe:<BR/><BR/>My fellow Americans,<BR/>I Samuel 8:7 And the Lord said ........ For they have not rejected you, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them<BR/>My neighborhood had a candidate for President named _____. A few times we did not bother with elections. Two got murdered. Two went to jail. Who is running things? Who is suppose to be running things?<BR/>Who is running things? Basically we do not solve Problems, God Does.<BR/>True , when man had a choice between Jesus and Barabbas, Barabbas won.. But Jesus is still Lord of all. <BR/>God is suppose to run things, and He does. Let us not forget that fact. Are we seeking God's will<BR/>I am satisfied with God's leadership. <BR/>The above is in response to voting suggestions.burndivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05133129688998029494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9421634.post-91780704172739036732008-02-05T18:09:00.000-08:002008-02-05T18:09:00.000-08:00Thanks so much for posting this Tim. Only had time...Thanks so much for posting this Tim. Only had time to skim due to the child needing a bath, but I believe you stated your position quite well and eloquently. It was interesting to read the opinion of others as well. And it's just like my mom to want verses for thing (I'm assuming it's her... =) ) I know she reads this blog, too, so HI MOM and thanks for being a mom who wants verses! =)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com